When apostles and prophets work together

In Eph. 2:19-20 we see this infrastructure metaphor touched on: Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

The role of both apostles and prophets is to work together to build the foundation of the Kingdom where the Kingdom has not yet reached.[1] Paul refers to this idea of the apostle as a foundation builder (see particularly Rom. 15:20; 1Cor 3:10).

Now imagine a builder trying to build a foundation without the information from the Master Architect? That is where the prophets come in. They are especially gifted to listen for the voice of God and understand. They are so crucial to apostolic foundation laying that Paul actually has them working together in the foundation laying. I may have good, strategic ideas; but without the prophetic I’m not sure if they are just my ideas or divine direction.

• Have you ever wondered why those particular five gifts were mentioned in Eph. 4:11-12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ? 
• Do the metaphors of foundations and infrastructure make sense to you? 
• What is keeping us from having a movement of the Spirit? Could it be that Christendom has emphasized certain of these gifts, nearly ignored others, and doesn’t allow them to work together under the coordination of the Master Architect? 
• What would the Western Church look like if it took these gifts as seriously as we see the Early Church taking them? 

from: http://thejesusvirus.org/2010/12/27/infrastructure-gifts/ 

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 [1] Or, like in the Western world where the Kingdom is in such bad repair that the Holy Spirit needs to start over or do a huge remodel.

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PHOTOS:
Laying blocks by maddavethorp @ Flickr.com
Chackbay Church by Sschex @ Flickr.com

What If ? - # 4

 

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

The wellness care, medical treatment of illnesses and other medical conditions, and medical treatment for the prevention of death shall be provided by the federal government of the United States of American for its citizens, registered visitors, and legal residents.  Medical care solely for the purpose of extending life rather than prevention of death shall be exempted.

• What would be the practical implications?
• What might be the effect socially, religiously, and economically?
• What abuses might happen?
• What issues might arise related to the other 3 proposed amendments?

___________________

[Personally, I can think of some very unintended practical consequences arising.]

___________________

Seriously, I'm looking for comments. I need that assistance for a project I am working on.

What If ? - # 3

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

No person without proof of genetic parentage by at least one citizen of the United States shall be permitted to work within the United States of America or the individual states and territories thereof nor be permitted to be registered as a citizen of the United States of America or any individual state or territory thereof nor be permitted the privileges and protections of the United States of America or its individual states or territories.

• What would be the practical implications?
• What might be the effect socially, ethnically, religiously, and economically?
• What abuses might happen?
• What about illegal immigration?
• How might this interact with an ammendment regarding personhood?
• How might this impact any healthcare law, etc.?

___________________

[Personally, I can think of some very unintended practical consequences arising.]

___________________

Seriously, I'm looking for comments. I need that assistance for a project I am working on.

 

What If ? - # 1

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

The  term  'person'  shall  be defined to include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.

• What would be the practical implications?
• What might be the effect socially, religiously, and economically?
• What abuses might happen?
• What about recording the conception of such persons? Would that be required by this amendment?

___________________

[Personally, I can think of some very unintended practical consequences arising.]

___________________

Seriously, I'm looking for comments. I need that assistance for a project I am working on.

What If ? - # 2

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

No government shall make any laws, ordinances, or other control or regulation regarding marriage, civil unions, or like arrangements or partnerships.  All such laws, ordinances, rules, regulations or other recognitions of such unions, arrangement, or partnerships are herewith removed from the books and rendered null and void.

• What would be the practical implications?
• What might be the effect socially, religiously, and economically?
• What abused might happen?
• What about divorce?

___________________

[Personally, I can think of some very unintended practical consequences arising.]

___________________

Seriously, I'm looking for comments. I need that assistance for a project I am working on.

 

What If? (Quaker specific request)

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

The  term  'person'  shall  be defined to include every human being from

the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.

____________________________________________

Quakers are an odd lot. So, I expect I will get some very different opinions on what the practical results of such a constitutional amendment might be.

Whether Conservative, Orthodox, Liberal, or Evangelical, our meetings/churches and members in reality do not represent a uniform theology AND DO NOT REPRESENT A UNITED POLITICAL POSITION. Now I know that comes as a shock to many Friends, especially in some evangelical yearly meetings and churches. 

But the silence of the minority opinions in the face of a vocal peer group does not mean most or even many of the individual members accept that faction's hard line rhetoric as truth ... truth about America, truth about economic policies, truth about which is the Christian party, and especially the lie that the local Friends culture is a manner of living and believing to be proud of, to be confident is the most godly among Americans and Friends churches.

One dear woman in a former pastorate bemoaned to me that her church should have a written doctrinal statement about their political positions.  She specifically wanted one for that congregation that clearly stated that they were politically conservative, pro-life, anti-gay, Republicans.  People needed to know!

Unfortunately her pastor - me - was not.  Yes, I am conservative but not the brand she talked about.  Yes, I am for the American way, but certainly did not stand for the "American way" as they espoused.  Yes, I am pro-life, but I am not anti-choice.  I believe the locus of choice has been totally twisted by the violent debate and rhetoric of both movements and neither stands shoulder to shoulder with God and what is truly Christian. 

Nor am I anti-gay.  I am for all people even as God was for and remains for me and died for me as I was and loves me and continues to transform the me I am.  I believe the sins God speaks of in scripture are the measures against which we can determine if our righteousness comes from Him by his transforming Spirit, but not measures of our standing before God.  If they were measures of our standing grace would be valueless and we might as well all be super-Orthodox Jews ... a position strongly opposed in the New Testament.

And NO, I am not a radical right wing Republican.  You want to know my personal prejudice on the issue?  I believe that no one can be a radical right wing Republican and Christian at the same time.  But I know that my prejudice is ungodly and graceless so I am constantly laying it aside to allow God to be the judge of each individual and their soul's status before Him.

I am an independent who firmly believes both the Republicans and Democrats hold worldviews and positions that are the opposite of the truths of scripture and the opinions of God.  Neither party takes interest in the example set by Jesus - it was, after all, not the American way, and too exclusive to be acceptable to progressive people. 

So - no matter what your political stripe - whether you would support the constitutional amendment below or not - I would value you descriptions of what might be some PRACTICAL results if such an amendment was attached to our Constitution of the United States of America.

______________________________________________

 

WHAT IF ?

An amendment to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA passed which declared:

The  term  'person'  shall  be defined to include every human being from

the moment of fertilization, cloning, or the functional equivalent thereof.

___________________

[Personally, I can think of some very unintended practical consequences arising.]

___________________

Of Politics And The Death Of The Leaven Of Christ In The American Church

Of Politics And The Death Of The Leaven Of Christ In America



I  believe that the cultural and political trappings of many in the churches, Friends churches and meetings included, offend God and bring great disrepute on the name of Jesus Christ. 


When conservative theological beliefs became substitutes for Holy Spirit guidance the original fire of the then labeled fundamentalist group was lost and a dire phariseeism took its place.  All of this simply fulfilled the warning of Christ and scripture.  The law (legalism in any form) kills.

Then the capture of the label Conservative Christian and its twist to mean Conservative politics became the logical next step in the loss of a life of faith under the leading of the Holy Spirit.  That step transformed us from strangers and aliens in this world (citizens first and foremost of the Kingdom of God) to a party under the factions in this world.  And, yes, a similar transformation occurred in the liberal branches of Christianity. 

I am grieved by so much done and said in the name of Christ.  I am horrified by the beliefs and actions which clearly nullify the example of Christ concerning "how then shall we live."  The turning of the main culture against Christianity and Christ simply parallels this downward spiral among those who are Christian by human claim only, in name only, but not by the power and life of a resurrected Lord.  It is so hard to not want to lash out, or to isolate myself.  It is so much harder to present truth.  To call out "thus says the Lord."

The price paid - rejection, vilification, etc. - sometimes has very practical physical and mental effects.  How, O Lord, how can I remain faithful when the grief and struggle lead so closely, so constantly, toward death?

THE LINK BELOW SPEAKS OF THIS SAME DECEPTION ONLY IN A DIFFERENT SET OF TERMS:

Following False Prophets

-  -  -  -  -

How do you think we should be engaged with culture and politics?

What is the call of the gospel in relationship to our earthly nation?

How might that look (effectively done) in relationship to those who are enemies to the righteousness that comes from God?

PHOTO CREDIT:
Mickael, making bread by fortinbras @ flickr.com

A Good Question About Peace ...

I've been Thinking ... Peace

The vine said to the grape, you don't look like me,

taste like me, and you use up all my sap...

Thus ended fruitfulness.

The grape said to the vine, you are too fibrous and stiff,

stuck in the mud - I am the future, I don't need you... 

Thus ended fruitfulness.

 by Mark Adams

Does this apply to peace? The fruit - peace.

Are these the same things being said by countries, idealological systems, different economic systems, political parties, ethnic groups, social classes - the labels and groupings we participate in?

Isn't that the reason behind war?  Behind the absence of peace.

  

Photos:
Dead Vines by Ms. Cheez Veeus All rights reserved @flickr.com

Flag_jeep_invasion by goranwc51 @ webshots.com

Who Will Stand Up For Quaker Integrity?

Integrity-The Meeting-Accountability

SINCE THE BEGINNING INTEGRITY HAS BEEN ONE OF THE CORE QUAKER VALUES.

Even across our differences, integrity is a value to which all Quakers ascribe.

"integrity" - wholeness/soundness, conveys the idea that you are on the inside what you profess to be on the outside

George W. Murray, Chancellor, Columbia International University, recites the following true story:

Years ago I met an independent missionary couple from the USA, serving in the Caribbean islands, who had been ex-communicated by the national church there because of the "double life" they were leading. As far as their praying friends back home were concerned, they were sincerely and sacrificially serving the Lord as missionaries. In reality, they had convinced two separate church congregations in their sending country to financially support them at 100%, thus they were dishonestly living on a double salary. They lived in a huge home that was far above the standard of living in that Caribbean area, their teenage children were living wild, uncontrolled lives in the local community, and the missionaries themselves were spending all their time improving their personal property and lifestyle and engaging in no gospel witness whatsoever. The local national believers saw right through their lack of integrity and, rightly, ex-communicated them from the local church!

Integrity. the Meeting. Accountability.  What is the proper thing to do when someone in the meeting/church, some group, or some meeting lacks integrity?

Is it any of our business?

Let's think in terms of buildings.

Structural integrity. 

The ability of the building to stand, to function safely.

Lack of integrity happens when the design is flawed. 

Lack of integrity comes when the construction or materials used in the construction are flawed or improper for their use. 

Lack of integrity comes from damage to the building by internal or external forces.

"The city's building department closed the Heritage Farmhouse and Museum to the general public this week after water and drainage issues affecting the home's foundation have rendered the building unsafe for occupancy."

Lack of integrity eventually shows.

Now apply that to Quaker/Christian integrity - whether in an individual, a group, or the meeting.  Lack of integrity happens when the design is flawed. Lack of integrity comes when the construction or materials used in the construction are flawed or improper for their use.  Lack of integrity comes from damage to the building by internal or external forces. Lack of integrity eventually shows.

But that leaves two questions:

          Is it any of my business?
          What is the proper thing to do?

And that is where accountability comes in.

Ethics, common law, and, in most places, legislated positions dictate  response to lack of structural integrity.  In designing the plans, the designer assumes responsibility.  When building, the construction manager and workers assume responsibility.  Or, at least ethics and common law dictate their responsibility when the lack results from their respective work. Individuals in legislated positions carry responsibility as well.  Building inspectors sign off on the integrity of what they see.  Later, building inspectors identify flaws as they become apparent - whether from design, materials, construction, or damage from internal and/or external forces and are responsible to report the problems in order to begin the process of addressing those issues.  And many ways exist for addressing structural integrity issues.  Which ones apply are as individualized as the buildings or parts of a building that are structurally unsound, unsafe.

One common quip about Christian integrity says, "what you do speaks so loudly that I can't hear what you say."  When the same is true about Quaker integrity -- hopefully the integrity issue is identified before this happens -- something needs to be done.

In the story by George Murray, as gross as the double-dip salary support is, the lack of integrity showed itself in many other ways:  the huge home far above the standard of living in that area, the wild, uncontrolled lives of the teenage children, and the missionaries themselves spending all their time improving their personal property and lifestyle, and failure to engage in gospel work.

The local, native church saw the lack of integrity behind each of these things and took action.  To some of our American sensibilities the excommunication seems harsh.  But was it?

Who should take responsibility if not the meeting/church?  Paul basically asks the same thing in I Corinthians 5:12-6:13.

And what is the proper thing to do?

Do you have an answer?

The Unfortunate Success of Training Lions to be Lambs

The Unfortunate Success of Training Lions to be Lambs

YOU GOTTA OPEN THIS LINK!

GELDING THE LION

Putting the Organic Growth Back in Quaker

PUTTING THE ORGANIC GROWTH BACK IN QUAKER
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CONNECT - IMPREGNATE - TEACH

[We talked about connect and impregnate in the last four posts]
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"even brand new believers can learn to hear and obey the voice of the Spirit. This seems to be the apostolic strategy in the New Testament; get them connecting with God regularly and normally. Then, and only then, do they need to make sure they got it all right." ross rohde

Look at when new church growth movements have taken root - when the church has gone organic.

The Bible teachers and Pharisees killed off the roll of the Spirit - legalism was Satan's tool aiding them in doing his job.  Then -- the church was born.

The institutional church (in the West think Catholic) killed off the roll of the Spirit - politics, institutionalism, and dead worship were Satan's tools aiding them doing his job.  Then -- the reformation was born.

The fundamentalist movement killed off the roll of the Spirit (in practice - not wordage) - do this, do that, don't do this, don't do that - cultural expectations primary and we're better than sinners and other saints -were Satan's tools aiding them doing his job.  Then -  the charismatic movement was born.

Now, both the charismatic movement and institutional church are once again killing off the Holy Spirit's roll -- in practice and pattern.  Satan's tools?, and through the rise of "if you wish the Spirit to ... then you must do.. or, its cousin, "if it does this or that ... then it's the Spirit" ... when it is merely humans exercising their created spiritual abilities.  "By their fruit you shall know them" roundly demonstrates where the new killing field exist ... especially in the Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Charismatic churches.

What you talking about???

If you watched EAT-PRAY-LOVE, you have seen exactly what I am talking about. 

If you have checked the "acceptable reasons" for divorce in the churches, you have seen what I am talking about. 

If you have checked most of the "media" ministries against the teaching of the whole council of God, you have seen exactly what I am talking about. 

If you have been dinged, or shot at, or "struggled over in the Spirit"  (the new forms of legalism), you have experienced exactly what I am talking about. 

I know a group of ladies who gave up scripture study.  Since God gives the gifts of the Spirit to all who ask.  And they asked then claimed all of them.  Then, exercising their gifts was all they needed for God to bring them the messages and instructions they wanted.  No wait - they "needed."   Never mind what God says is the role he has given scripture or the fact that God's going to do it his way - not some "legal immutable laws of the universe way."  And never mind that the Spirit moves when and where he wills - directed only by the Hand of God never by the hands, minds, demands, claims, etc., etc. of humans.

Satan is busy, his work nearly perfected, with killing off the roll of the Spirit again - so soon - in the killing fields of today.

Believers can learn to hear and obey the voice of the Spirit.  Organically that is the key to life, both rebirth and transformation into the image of Christ.  Organically hearing and obeying the voice of the Spirit remains the only key to impregnation and reproduction of the church in today's world.

"if we hit them with 'perfect doctrine at all costs' right off the bat, we end up with a bunch of immature Christians arguing over who is right. It is a pastor’s nightmare."ross rohde

Each time the roll of the Spirit has been killed off in the churches held one thing was in common.  Somebody or some group decides that certain statements, attended by certain actions evidence faith.  In one guise or another these were paraded out as "perfect" doctrine -- make that better than yours.

Doctrine is important.  The New Testament admonishes us to pass on sound doctrine -- by word and the example of our lives.  But, our humanity, having experienced the power of God to which these doctrines testify and experienced God's work by the Spirit in our own lives, wants that same experience, that same understanding for everyone else.

Is that bad?  No, unless we then make it our job to insure that the newly converted and the unconverted get it right, i.e., - understand things the way we do, experience the same spiritual works we have. 

We reduce God's roll to what we conceive to be "what God says" or "how God actually does it."  Never mind that the best of our human understanding cannot not plumb the when and how, let alone the where, of the Spirit's speaking and moving.

But we insist - this is how it is!  This is how it must be! 

That's not even close to passing on sound doctrine to those chosen to lead in God's church so that they may teach the brethren and sisters.

Feeding the meat of sound doctrine to infants leads to colicky babies, upset bowels, and sicknesses that hinder the growth in maturity needed to understand and digest sound doctrine.

We end up -- as Ross Rohde says -- with people fighting over who is right.  After all we're just standing for "the" truth.  Or we end up with one Ross does not mention -- circling the wagons to keep out all who don't see it our way. 

 

From this cauldron of the devil comes undue criticism.  People who listen to see if the preacher/teacher says the right things -- things the way they understand them.  People not listening for God's instruction on further growth, etc., and then verifying it by searching the scriptures.

(Don't get me started on the biblical illiteracy of today's killing fields.)

"Instead, we get them connected directly with the Holy Spirit and then teach them how to discern good doctrine from weird stuff."ross rohde

Right on Ross.  And so is your conclusion:

Teachers are important to the infrastructure, but their role has to come at just the right time so as not to send the Church into a detour from the direction of the Spirit; which is always going to focus on a continually and rapidly reproducing movement."ross rohde

A PREGNANT QUAKERISM

I Love That Idea!

Connect - Impregnate - Then Teach

the Quaker Disciples

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LET'S   PUT   ORGANIC   GROWTH

BACK INTO BEING QUAKER!

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Ross Rohde Quotes From:  http://thejesusvirus.org/2010/12/27/infrastructure-gifts/

The Quaker Gelding - Certainly Was Not True Of George Fox

THE GELDING OF THE CHRISTIAN MAN
 by Kevin on May 4, 2011

     A popular website says “Gelding a male horse allows it to be calmer and better-behaved, making the animal quieter, gentler and potentially more suitable as an everyday working animal.” Walk into a lot (not all) of traditional churches and this is exactly what they are doing to the men.
If you go talk to a man that doesn’t know Christ and ask him what he thinks a man that follows Christ acts like and looks like and you’ll probably get the definition of a sissy instead of a Christian. This is probably what he’d say:

I ain’t gonna be part of a group of men that all they do is sit around in their fancy shoes and sing Kum-Ba-Ya while holding hands. That church stuff teaches that if somebody punches you in the nose that you can’t do nothin’ but let ‘em hit you again–and love ‘em for hittin’ you.
I watch these “Christian Men” eating at the cafe after they get done with their sing alongs, and I’m tellin’ you they look gelded to me. There is no fire in their eyes. There’s a weakness about them in the way they carry themselves. All this hugging and loving stuff these churches are teaching ain’t doing nothing but gelding good men.

     How are we supposed to reach the lost when they think like this? How are we supposed to convince these outlaws and mavericks that Christ is the only way when it seems like the first thing the church does is take away their manhood.
     The first guys Jesus went and got were twelve MEN. We know for sure that five of them were fishermen and one of them was a mobster (they called ‘em tax collectors back then). Jesus picked these types of guys because he knew he needed strong, courageous, and honest men to learn from him and carry out his message.
     We forget sometimes that Peter would kick the crap out of you where the good Lord put a crack in you. He was constantly getting in trouble and cutting people’s ears off. Pete was quick tempered, opinionated, and absolutely loved by Jesus.
And let’s not forget James and John…the Sons of Thunder. Messengers were sent into a Samaritan village to announce that Jesus would be arriving there and the village didn’t welcome him. The Sons of Thunder wanted to call down fire from heaven and burn up every man, woman, and child in the village. Jesus didn’t let them, but I’m sure he loved their gusto in sticking up for him.
     You may think that I’m being sarcastic, but I have felt gelded ever since I became a preacher–but those days are over now.

• I still love you in every way, but if you are rude to me, I will try to walk away and forget. But if you continue to get in my face, I’m gonna love you enough not to let you do that.
• Your family isn’t perfect either. No longer will I sit here and let you tell me how bad my kids are or the fact that you don’t think what my wife is wearing is appropriate attire for a preacher’s wife.
• If you start causing problems and dissension in the church and you call yourself a Christian, I’m going to go to you in love and try to help you. If you continue, I’m going to throw you out on your head just like the Apostle Paul said to do.
• If you have the audacity to say it to me, then you’ll need the gumption to hear my response.

     God doesn’t want gelded men that are “calmer and better-behaved, making them quieter, gentler and potentially more suitable as an everyday working animal.”
     He wants fierce warriors that are willing to follow him into battle against the gates of hell. He wants people that will be brave enough to make themselves a living sacrifice and ride through the rattlesnakes and coyotes to reach that lost sheep in the back corner of the pasture.
     Jesus is looking for people that want to call down fire from heaven for taking prayer out of school. He wants the attitude (not the deed) of Peter when people try to take him out of our society.
T     he Bible Studies are fantastic for strategic planning–but get off your butts and into the battle. Singing five hundred stanzas of a song is fantastic–but use that as a rally call for when you rush into the fight.
     We’ve got a bunch of good bible students and philosophers. What we need are more warriors. We need those cowboys and cowgirls that will ride with Jesus when he comes back and it not be their first battle.

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:11-16 NIV)

     When I get to heaven, I hope that I’m dirty, bloody, nasty, and beat to hell from the work I’ve been doing for God.
     The verse above says that God will clean me up with some clean clothes and I will ride back into battle one last time following the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Will you be riding with me?

http://campfirecowboyministries.com/2011/05/the-gelding-of-the-christian-man/

Beyond Suspicion of the Hireling

The most excruciating thing that happened to me as a pastor (shepherd) occurred when asked to help people discover what the Spirit had in store for them.  Everyone felt a brooding sense that God wanted to do something dynamic in their midst.  It felt palpable and immediate.  But like all great moves of the Spirit, there was first an ask on the Holy Spirit's part.  There was refining, recasting of vision, and turning to a new way of thinking and living required.

For this task God sent me in the shepherding role.  But, though they called me to come, though they asked me to help them discover what was imminent in the Spirit's brooding over them,  the sheep rebelled against what the Spirit required.  As the scripture speaks, the sheep refused to be lead.

Scripture warns about the hireling shepherd.  As a Quaker I am from a tradition steeped in suspicion of the hireling. Unfortunately, among some of us Friends, it is also a tradition to turn God's shepherding ministry into an employer employee relationship.  The meeting being the employer and the shepherd being an employee because we give him money. 

This totally goes against all that scripture says about the role of the shepherding gift.  It takes an important gift of ministry and leadership and turns it into a relationship of the controlled and the controllers.  There is a rising tide of shepherds taking a dominating role.  However, a greater incidence numerically exists of the sheep exercising the non-biblical employer/controller role. Not very organic for a movement that learned 350 years ago about being an organic church.

When sheep rebel, or is it the wolves in sheep's clothing rebelling, the body of Christ gets bloody and shepherds get torn limb from limb, soul from body.  And the real sheep?  Well they just follow the rebel leaders or hide.  They are not willing to stand up to the wolves by themselves.  When they have, when they do, they pay an unwanted price and, thereafter, never take a stand again.  Indeed, they should never have to.  It is to the apostles and shepherds that the correcting role belongs.  Having rejected God's servants sent to lead them out of this sickness, the rebels have taken upon themselves correction by the wrath of God.  Maybe in this life.  But if not, most certainly in the next.

May God grant  "repentance leading then to a knowledge of the truth,  and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." that we again may become an organic movement of the Spirit.

-----------------------------

With  insights on the shepherd role, Ross Rohde calls Christianity a contact sport and gives us some additional insights below:

Caring for the Flock

Christianity is a contact sport. It is not some pristine, polite, protected activity. It is real and sometimes quite raw. When sheep get beat up, attacked by wolves and butt their heads with one another, they need shepherds. Jesus is the chief Shepherd as I explain in The Pastor in Organic Church. But the Spirit often uses especially gifted people with particularly warm hearts and divine relational skills to deal with these issues. Jesus the Good Shepherd is working through his spiritually gifted shepherds. Pastor or Shepherd (same word in Greek) is not a hierarchical position in organic church; it’s a spiritual gift, nothing more…but also nothing less. It’s important to developing the infrastructure of an ever growing movement of the Spirit.

• Have you ever wondered why those particular five gifts were mentioned in Eph. 4:11-12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ? 
• Do the metaphors of foundations and infrastructure make sense to you? 
• What is keeping us from having a movement of the Spirit? Could it be that Christendom has emphasized certain of these gifts, nearly ignored others, and doesn’t allow them to work together under the coordination of the Master Architect? 
• What would the Western Church look like if it took these gifts as seriously as we see the Early Church taking them? 

http://thejesusvirus.org/2010/12/27/infrastructure-gifts/

Even 7-on-7 Can Be a Contact Sport by  dswinney @webshot.com

Has Quakerism Had A Miscarriage

QUAKERISM STARTED OUT PREGNANT WITH LIFE AND RAPID FIRE MULTIPLE BIRTHS

WHERE DO WE STAND TODAY

HAS YOUR QUAKER MEETING MISCARRIED

ARE YOU PREGNANT

I HOPE YOUR NOT BARREN!

Continual Reproduction Starts Early

"the role of an organic evangelist isn’t to do all the evangelism, it is to train the new believers how to share their faith effectively, early and often"

ross rhode

Organic is a big word today.  It has been since I was much younger.  That is not designed to take away from the green movement.  What does a green church look like?  I'd love to answer that., but that's not for today.

BUT -- what does an organic meeting look like?

More and more we see terms like organic applied to the church. Organic is a big word today.  It has been since I was much younger.  What does an organic church look like? I don't mean to take away for the green movement.  And - what does a green church look like?  I'd love to answer that, but not today.  

BUT --what does an organic church look like?

In our quote from Ross Rhode today, he speaks of "organic evangelists."  He ties "organic" to words like reproduction. 

Words that touch on organic as a metaphor.

"God takes continual reproduction, generation after generation seriously"
ross rhode

But what does organic mean.  Flash words quickly get cut off from their roots.  Flash words quickly take on a meaning of their own.  I believe, in the process, flash words become meaningless. Useless. So what does "organic" mean?

/ôrˈganik/Adjective

 or·gan·ic

1. Of, relating to, or derived from living matter: "organic soils".

2. Of, relating to, or denoting compounds containing carbon (other than simple binary compounds and salts) and chiefly or ultimately of biological origin.

Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

or·gan·ic    adj. 1. Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms. 2. Of, relating to, or affecting a bodily organ. 3. a. Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin.    b. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals.    c. Serving organic food.    d. Simple, healthful, and close to nature. 4. a. Having properties associated with living organisms.     b. Resembling a living organism in organization or development; interconnected. 5. Constituting an integral part of a whole; fundamental. 6. Law Denoting or relating to the fundamental or constitutional laws and precepts of a government or an organization. 7. Chemistry Of or designating carbon compounds. n. 1. A substance, especially a fertilizer or pesticide, of animal or vegetable origin. 2. Chemistry An organic compound.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

So, an organic church serves organic food:  organic physical food or organic spiritual food?  I'm confused.  Well, not me but I can see how people could be.

Seriously, an organic evangelist means an evangelist consisting as an integral part of a whole.  Now that makes good since.  That sounds exactly like what Eph. 4:11 and the other "gifts" passages speak about.

If the church is growing (see organic metaphor), it sustains an organic cycle, a reproductive cycle.  I like the metaphor of a pregnant church.  The Church, at least until Christ returns, cycles again and again through its life cycle.  It's built into the organism.  It's life!  Church alive.

• Do the metaphors of growth, reproduction, and other organic figures make sense to you? 

• What is keeping us from having a movement of Vibrant Life? Could it be that Christendom has emphasized certain of these gifts, nearly ignored others, and doesn’t allow them to work together under the coordination of the Master Organic Farmer? 
• What would the Western Church look like if it took these gifts as seriously as we see the Early Church taking them? 
• Is your evangelist a birthing coach?

Ephesians 4:11 (New Living Translation):

 ¹¹ Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers.

http://thejesusvirus.org/2010/12/27/infrastructure-gifts/

Though I have not yet read them, there are at least two books on organic church. Have any of you read them?